Electric Cars, Hybrids, renewables, Distributed networks and subsidiartiy Energy Self Sufficinency and the Circular economy.

The Telsa Model 3 is now in production here in the UK. OK I still can't afford it, but a range of 215 miles is good, and Having driven a Leaf for nearly 4 years I'm getting addicted to the 'Ludicrous Mode' of EV's which will get you from 0-60 in 2.5 secs. Eat your heart our Scalextric 

Latest news: Model 3 project is moving ahead of schedule, and Elon Musk predicts first deliveries will take place on July 28
EVO.CO.UK
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Grant Higgins and affordable for everyone #sarcasm
Pippa Bartolotti I bought my Leaf second hand, so it can be.
Mirka Johanna I'll learn to drive as soon as I can afford one of these 😂
Elspeth Parris So when will they produce an affordable small car? I currently drive a C1, bought for just £4000 at 6 years old. The idea of spending £30K plus on a car is a joke, my mortgage is about that much.
Pippa Bartolotti Check out the Renault Twizzy Elspeth. They're coming on to the second hand car market as well.

Reply23 hrs
Ian Wright The Tesla is produced in the US, and will not be made in the UK. For cheapo electric cars try the Peugeot ion or Citroen C Zero. If you go on to Autotrader you can pick one of these up quite cheap secondhand, but the range is circa 50-80 miles. The Renault and Nissan electric cars are very good, but batteries tend to be lease. For example you have to pay circa £70 pcm to Renault for the battery (in addition to the car), and compared with an economical diesel or petrol you will not save any money, and have limited range. You can get the Nissan with the battery included, and buying one two or three years old will save you loads on the list price. If it was me I would go for the Nissan. However if you wait for a few years the range of these cars will be vastly increased and it will be possible for a mainstream electric car to do 250miles without a charge within say 5-10 years. Until then I will keep my diesel and when it has done 200-250k miles I will switch to electric.

Reply49 mins
Gareth Pratt When we bought our Leaf 2 and a half years ago the range on them was about 85 miles. When we changed it in March this year the range on them had gone up to 125 miles. So the technology is improving on electric cars. I'm not convinced they're the silver bullet mind you since the electricity to run them still has to be made which means more power stations consuming coal, gas, oil or nuclear.

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Yesterday at 7:10pmEdited
John Marshall Electricity is increasingly produced via renewables. Musk's big batteries could well accelerate this. Other initiatives, such as retrofitting smart charging points into lamp posts will make life even easier for people running EV's.
Pippa Bartolotti Gareth I have 100% green gas and electricity supplier, plus I make from my own roof, so I'm happy that I'm not adding to dirty fuel.

Reply23 hrsEdited
Gareth Pratt That's fine Pippa Bartolotti . I'm glad you aren't. We have solar panels too for what good they are, but I'd be willing to bet most people who buy electric cars charge them from the national grid. It's going in the right direction with EV"s but promoting them as pollution free motoring is wrong and irresponsible.

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Pippa Bartolotti I wouldn't promote them as pollution free in general. It takes personal responsibility to keep it clean.

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22 hrs
John Allaway Pippa Bartolotti Using your roof to make gas might seem fine in the summer, but as soon as winter sets in you might wish you'd kept it!

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21 hrs
Kevin Lee Sparrow Just curious about EVs - how long to charge, compared to a petrol refill? Hours?

Reply22 hrs
Pippa Bartolotti Mine takes about 20 mins at the motorway services. There are three types of charge. At home it's about 4 hours, a normal 3 pin plug is probably overnight. Lots of info here https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Map of UK charge points allowing EV drivers to find charge points, plan electric journeys, update status and comment on points.
ZAP-MAP.COM

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22 hrs
Nigel Young I have heard that the manufacture of the batteries and the disposal of them at their end of life has almost as bad an impact on the environment as running a small petrol or diesel car. Is there data that supports or denies that?

Reply21 hrs
Rich Coasby Manufacturing emissions are about 70% higher for battery powered vehicles than for conventional vehicles. As for day-to-day running, Tesla just replaces carbon emissions you can see with carbon emissions you can't. The vast majority of electricity in the US (which Tesla's use to charge up) comes from coal fired power stations. The whole premise that these cars are environmentally friendly is basically complete and utter bollocks.

Reply13 hrs
Nigel Young Rich Coasby Thanks Rich, need to rethink on the next car then. I was thinking of a hybrid. Are they as bad? 🙁

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Pippa Bartolotti All battery producers in the UK are required to be registered with the Government as part of an EU-wide (!) initiative to increase battery collection/recycling and completely prohibit the landfill/incineration of automotive and industrial batteries. We are aiming for a closed loop system where every component is labled, everything is recycled and nothing is waste.

Reply9 hrs
Pippa Bartolotti When it comes to the energy, use your loaf. If you fill up from a dirty fuel provider, you are adding to the problem. If you fill up from a 100% green provider, you are adding to the solution.

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Nigel Young Pippa Bartolotti yes, but what about the point of additional emissions at the point of manufacture? Then, if you charge up at a public charging point how do you know from where they source their electricity? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'd just like some facts, not just opinions...

Reply8 hrs
Rich Coasby Nigel are you trying to be green or just fancy an electric car? If the former then better off buying a used but efficient car with a gas engine and 50+ mpg. If latter then buy a Tesla because they go like shit off a shovel!

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7 hrsEdited
Nigel Young Rich Coasby Trying to be a bit greener (not for my generation, for that of my grandkids plus) but it's difficult to know what to actually do. What is certain is that my current car, a diesel, is a bad idea...

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6 hrs
Carl Dodd until we start NOT travelling so much ( unnecessary private Journeys) its all NOT very green - .. an older ,cleanish car with high MPG ( 50-60+) is just about greener if driven well and serviced properly ! The EV revolution will cause a strain on the ...See More

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Roger Lewis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdUdhJxIt0

It's a battery special. This episode looks at the stories we've been…
YOUTUBE.COM

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39 mins
Roger Lewis That's a selection of some of my favourite fully charged episodes. From Smart Grids to re purposing old Car batteries The notion that Electric Cars are some how a retrograde step from InternaCombustionin engines is absurd.
The final absurdity of COmaprisons between these technologies is that they are not mutually exclusive and the resource questions which we face on the planet are incredibly ill-served using Traditional Debt based money measures.

Introduction to Technocracy - 1933
https://archive.org/details/introductiontotec00tech
discussions — of 'value,' of fluctuating prices, of the gold standard, of changing interest rates, of items of pecuniary wealth which are at the same time items of debt — are
merely discussions looking toward a readjustment of the factors which prevent them
The problem of analysing political choices against the metric of a Monetary measure is the Money as a Thing is most certainly a Variable and as any good technologist, scientist or metrologist will tell you a unit of measurement has to be clearly defined and fixed.
The dollar. He notes that it is a variable. Why anyone should attempt, on this earth, to use a
variable as a measuring rod is so utterly absurd that he dismisses any serious
consideration of its use in his study of what should be done.
He also considers 'price' and 'value' and the fine- spun theories of philosophers and
economists who have attempted to surround these terms with the semblance of meaning.
These terms, like the monetary unit, may have had meaning to men in the past but they
mean nothing whatsoever to the modern technologist. The standard of measurement is
not relevant to the things measured; and the measuring rod and the things, measured as if
they were stable, are all variables.

I do not advocate technocracy far from it, although its insight into the stupidity exhibited in objective analysis (sic) of Modern technologies 
is certainly worth giving a little serious thought.

http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/.../finacial...

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Roger Lewis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siGatwzI4w this has a great segment on Smart Grids using car batteries as a Power sink for ironing out peak demands on the national grid, of course, localised Grids and energy self sufficiency for communities is a reality for Modern Renewables schemes. Renewables and subsidiarity go hand in hand.

This episode is sponsored by…
YOUTUBE.COM

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21 mins
Roger Lewis We have been very pleased with our Toyota Prius Plugin Hybrid and Would like to get a fully electric Nissan Leaf once we need to replace our Old Golf Estate. A Solar Array incorporated onto a carport is also economically viable even here in the south of Sweden. Energy self-sufficiency and Clean motoring makes a great deal of sense. Designed for proper re-purposing and recycling Both Nickel Hydride and Lithium Ion Cells are id managed properly in a holistic supply chain and design from showroom to Recycling centre full of positives for the environment.
As with all Technology where a whole system approach is adopted at the design stage potential problems can be dissolved into the design process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-IfRU4KcA


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Carl Dodd Interesting stuff... My Brother is doing abit of work on reducing the cost of battery tech, and smart grid... We will see.. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later

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