Another Intrusion into Green Party Grief. Logic Alert, that faculty is always effected by greif.

Messiah's rarely avoid a sticky end, and in my head the chants 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' became 'Poor Jeremy Corbyn'. His followers will be the first to pull him apart when the party he fronts changes it's tune to the discordant music of neo liberal influence. The Labour manifesto was pretty good - a lot of items borrowed from the Greens - but it was a manifesto they knew they wouldn't have to stick to. The next one will be very different. It's not a good idea to squander your resistance on a pocket full of mumbles - such are promises.
When a manifesto is written to try and please everyone, it become a weak thing. I would rather the Green manifesto pleased only a few, than be full of lies and jest. I am proud to be part of political party which puts future generations at the top of the list, which seeks radical change to overturn the stranglehold of corporations shearing our farmers of what small profit they can make and draining the less well off to fill the coffers of the already wealthy.
I am proud to be working against pollution and the polluters, to bring energy back to the communities who use it, to champion small businesses and the Citizens Income. Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest...
Thanks Simon and Garfunkle 
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Christopher Moffett I'm against pollution too - it is one of the causes of cancer. Co2 is not a pollutant though. It is plant food.
Need to focus on the real pollution aspect of oil produced fuel.

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Pippa Bartolotti Anything in excess becomes a problem. The warming effect of too much CO2 has upset the precarious balance of our climate, leading to the much bigger problem of methane being released from under the tundra. Rainforests are still being cut down at an alarming rate, fuel is still being burnt unnecessarily. Radical change is required.

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Christopher Moffett Pippa Bartolotti I agree anything in excess becomes a problem. Co2 is such a minute warming gas that it really doesn't matter though. Water vapour is 95%..of warming gasses. Should we ban water? 
The belief -and it is just a belief - is that we the people are the problem. And we are not - it is the people who govern us who are the problem, promoting problems that don't even exist.

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Pippa Bartolotti Minute or not, it's the effect it has which is the problem.

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Christopher Moffett What effect? Please post disasters that have been proven to be the result of CO2.

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Grant Higgins dont waste your breath.

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Christopher Moffett I'm sorry, but you know Pippa Bartolotti that Co2 has no evidence as a warming gas that causes catastrophe - or even close. Yet we have a fearmongering media that tells us we have to act now or kill the planet?
What a load of rubbish. Lets have decent environmetalism based on science and helping people to avoid real pollution and cancer.

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John Allaway Christopher Moffett You are either stupid or deliberately trying to cause annoyance on here.

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Adam Smith It's the same with any leader though, everyone is quick enough to jump on that person when they can't get their own way.

I call it's children's politics and why many people gets disengage cause of children trying to punch above their weight

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Pippa Bartolotti Frightens me Adam. To put so much faith into one man. I think of when Diane Abbott had a bad day, she was crucified from all sides, including her own, but a more loyal and generous person would be hard to find. I value those qualities, yet they were forgotten in an instant.

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Phil Carson He's not the Messiah,he's a very naughty boy

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Grant Higgins the earth is flat too.

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Phil Carson If it were cats would push everything off the edge

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Grant Higgins http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../idt-5aceb360-8bc3-4741-99f0...

Six graphics that explain climate change as world leaders gathered in Paris for COP21.
BBC.CO.UK

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Ceri Powe Meh he's taken Labour back to what it was it meant to be and the manifesto reflected that

He's getting so much support because he's shown those generally apathetic with politics that the two main parties can offer different things for a change instead
...See More

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Grant Higgins plus his political history speaks for itself.
ive never voted for apolitical party in my life. until this last election.
ooooooh Jeremy Corbyn

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Pippa Bartolotti He's a good man Ceri.

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Salman Khattak I'm going to be very honest a green-left partnership is in the best interest of both parties as we have a common threat which is the industrial-military complex. Money in `Britain is clearly and deliberately being concentrated in the hands of the very few when our public services are being decimated . Teresa May and her like have no concern for environmental issues Britain could become a low carbon economy if corporte interests are minimalised. i would like to see you work with Corbyn for the betterment of all people. We need a new holistic vision for Great Britain one not dictated by ruthless competition but by a society guided by all our common interests . Selfishness and greed have been virtues the British are world renowned for and this needs to change. We need a better way . I'm more than a consumer.

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Sarah Godfrey I read the Labour, Tory & Green Party manifestos, tho tbh I couldn't finish the Tory manifesto, it was terrible. But the Green Party disability manifesto seems to rely heavily on carers in the community similar to the Dutch model of social care, which is failing. I found it disturbing that any party could think that community carers are the way to close the social care funding gap. Social care & care work is not for everyone in the community & it should be a vocation with proper training & decent wages. It's the first time in my life that I've not voted Green, partly due to the Green disability manifesto & partly because I had to vote tactically for the first time in my life.

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Salman Khattak Corbyn is the first politician in a very long time who is believable and not self serving or manipulative.

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Ross Saunders Did the Brighton Greens stick to their principles when they cut and privatised services? Did Bristol Green Party councillors when they joined the mayor's cabinet and designed and enforced cuts? Did the Irish Greens when they went into coalition with the Irish Tories to make austerity a reality in Ireland, or the German Greens when they joined with the SPD to bring in neoliberal attacks on the welfare state? When tested, when have the Greens ever stuck to their principles?

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John Allaway Sorry to have to say this Pippa Bartolotti but for a change, I totally disagree with you. The Jeremy Corbyn phenomenon is a ray of hope in an otherwise darkening world, in my humble opinion. It has the potential to change the direction of politics for the better for the first time in a very long time. As such, it should be welcomed, not used as a way of airing 'they stole our policies' gripes.

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Anthony Slaughter There were some very good and long overdue policies in the recent Labour manifesto, and yes, some that were already very familiar to anyone involved with producing the Green Party manifesto back in 2015. It is also undeniable that Corbyn has done an incredible job of shifting the political narrative and debate back onto truly meaningful grounds. Yet, it is equally important to note that this labour manifesto was also pro nuclear, pro trident, anti proportional representation / a fairer voting system (no real surprise there), based on the myth of endless growth and unquestionably misleading about the desired outcome of any Brexit deal. Both Labour and Tories are still making the false claim that they can deliver continued access to all the benefits of the single market without freedom of movement. This blatant lie is also largely responsible for the fact that this labour manifesto contained the most racist immigration policies seen from the labour party in several decades.

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Cyril Fitton But most greens do not have the class analysis that you and your leader have Pippa That is the problem.What ever his faults Corbyn is about class.

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Duncan Rees Yes, well said pippa! How many false Labour Party dawns do we need to recall!? Labour can be part of bringing change that we seek - but they can never be relied upon to deliver it themselves.

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Sarah Godfrey I would personally prefer a progressive alliance between Labour & Greens. IMO the party model of one central leader is a bit outdated.

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Gwyn Kemp-Philp Frankly I think the days of a party ruling the roost from a minority position is past its sell-by as well.
By minority, I mean fewer than 50% of the votes cast.

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Gwyn Kemp-Philp Yes that's true but the last messiah is still being worshipped 2000 years later after he changed the world... and... oddly enough, they have the same initials - Spooky eh?

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Sarah Godfrey Spot on Gwyn!

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Gwyn Kemp-Philp Sorry I forgot the punchline first time. 

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Gwyn Kemp-Philp As for 'They stole our policies' POV I think that as long as it makes the country a better place for its population I don't care whether it was their policy or whether they were forced into doing it. What matters is it happens.
With that in mind, Cor
byn is already exerting pressure on the tiller of power.
In all fairness, he does need to serve his apprenticeship as a leader before he is let loose with the keys. I'm happy to endure the next 5 years because we are getting a better deal than we would have had without him and he in turn will be fit for power by then and be able to grab it with both hands
People conveniently forget that he has shot up from nowhere, he has done what he has with practically zero support from anyone except the rank and file who believe in him - or rather, his potential.
He has weathered more storms in six months than May has in her whole career and it shows.

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Nichola Davies Walker Why would people being drawn into the politics of hope by an egoless man be such an affront you? 
Strange in my opinion

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Pippa Bartolotti You misunderstand me Nichola. Jeremy is a good man, so is John McDonnell I've met both. My post is merely an observation about Messiah's in general and manifesto's in particular.

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Sarah Godfrey Pippa Bartolotti I agree with you about manifestos in general; the whole political party model seems so outdated to me now. The concept of one leader for any party is flawed imo. Yes we are as humans fixated on Messiahs it seems, whether it's Jesus, Corbyn or May! (I know it's hard to believe but to some people May is the second coming of Thatcher lol) I'm not sure what new model should be adapted but that is why these conversations are important to me.

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Tyrone O Sullivan Yet again Pippa if you don't understand what's going on its better for you to remain silent don't make a fool of yourself it's embarrassing your friends

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Roger Lewis It seems obvious that the Media is pushing this Corbyn Messiah Meme. It will be interesting to see how it is countered By Labour 2017, which does have a good strong team, Barry Gardiner, Chris Lavery, John O'Donnell, Richard Budgeon, Emily Thornberry, There are many others, Labour has 260 odd MP´s Pippa. The Rear Guard action from the Blairite Progress wing will be interesting there is plenty of evidence of the shortcomings of their analysis it is as shabby as your own in many respects.
Now the Greens Have 1 MP and the 2017 Green Manifesto was a dog's Dinner, In a remarkable feat of projection, it seems many of the Ills of the Green Party, presently you see in The Labour of 2017.

How far Labour 2017 can get subsidiarity to work as Praxis remains to be seen the two Leadership Elections Won By Corbyn certainly point to a party where the Grass roots has a definite and effective voice. Again The turn out in the Labour Leadership Elections put those of GP 2016 to shame, Plus 70% to Sub 30%.

http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/.../green...

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